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To be honest, my understanding comes, to a large degree, from two Quranic verses. But apart from that, what do you propose is the meaning of 'ilah'. And what about 'Allah'? Take care.
Posted:
Sat 20 Feb, 2010 12:20 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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The wrote:
To be honest, my understanding comes, to a large degree, from two Quranic verses.
Good morning bro
Please post the verses and let's discuss it
The wrote:
But apart from that, what do you propose is the meaning of 'ilah'. And what about 'Allah'? Take care.
Ilah mean god, any god, Al-Ilah, also means any god, so we can refer to any man made god using Ilah or Al-Ilah, however if we use the word Ilah to refer to Allah then we must add to the sentence something that uniquely identify Him which His unique name Allah, i.e.
La Illah Illa Allah
i.e. there is no god except Allah
or A Ilah Ghair Allah
i.e. is it a god other than Allah?
for the first example it should sound odd if you say it like this: there is no god except the God, it makes absolutely no sense
and for the second example, it should also sound odd if you say it like this: is it a god other than the God?
Also if you add Al to any other name, like Rahman to be Al-Rahman, or Rahim to be Al-Rahim, the letters without the Al stayed the same, i.e. Rahman & Rahim) on the other hand if you add al to ilah, you won't get the same letters, you need to remove the first alif in Ilah, some idiot say it Lah, so I say to them, what is Ilah then?
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I will try to break this up into manageable parts so that we can know where to agree or disagree; I hope this is okay with you, buddy.
@ Ilah mean god, any god, Al-Ilah, also means any god, so we can refer to any man made god using Ilah or Al-Ilah
I agree that the disbelievers misappropriate the term 'ilah' and take others than Allah as 'ilah,' but this does not mean that there really are multiple 'ilahs'.
Here the Quran condemns those who take two 'gods,' and tells that indeed He is the only Ilah:
16:51 God says: 'Take not to you two gods (ilahayni). He is Ilahun Wahidun; so have awe of Me.'
There are many other verses that tell us that there is only One Ilah. So, the correct understanding would be that we have only one Ilah. If you agree with this, then we will move on to the next part. Take care.
Posted:
Sat 20 Feb, 2010 2:50 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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The wrote:
I will try to break this up into manageable parts so that we can know where to agree or disagree; I hope this is okay with you, buddy.
Salam bro
Sure, however I insist that I totally disagree that the name Allah is a compsition of Al + Ilah
The wrote:
@ Ilah mean god, any god,
Indeed
The wrote:
Al-Ilah, also means any god,
Exactly
The wrote:
so we can refer to any man made god using Ilah or Al-Ilah
Of course
The wrote:
I agree that the disbelievers misappropriate the term 'ilah' and take others than Allah as 'ilah,' but this does not mean that there really are multiple 'ilahs'.
I am not sure what you mean? Forget what the disbelievers say, the question is this:
is the name Allah a composition of Al + Ilah ?
The answer for me is absolutely not
The wrote:
Here the Quran condemns those who take two 'gods,' and tells that indeed He is the only Ilah:
16:51 God says: 'Take not to you two gods (ilahayni). He is Ilahun Wahidun; so have awe of Me.'
There are many other verses that tell us that there is only One Ilah.
Thanks for bringing this verse on the table, this verse confirmed for me that Allah cannot be the composition of Al + Ilah
This is because Al-Ilah is a proper Arabic word which looks like this: الاله, therefore the name Allah cannot be the composition of Al +Ilah
In the verse you posted if Allah = Al + Ilah, then instead of saying the verse as follow:
إِنَّمَا هُوَ اللهٰ وَاحِدٌ Inammah Hua Allah Wahid
This is because Allah is still using the word Ilah to refer to Himself, i.e. Ilah can be used to refer to Allah and any man made god, while the name Allah is a unique name that is explicit to Allah
The wrote:
So, the correct understanding would be that we have only one Ilah. If you agree with this, then we will move on to the next part. Take care.
Certianly I agree with that, i.e. we can refer to Allah using the word Ilah, as for the believers there is only one Ilah who is Allah
What ai totally disagree on and reject that the unique name Allah is a composition of Al+Ilah
My strongest argument is simply Al-Ilah is a proper word that can be used to refer to any real or man made god
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@ This is because Allah is still using the word Ilah to refer to Himself, i.e. Ilah can be used to refer to Allah and any man made god, while the name Allah is a unique name that is explicit to Allah
Certianly I agree with that, i.e. we can refer to Allah using the word Ilah, as for the believers there is only one Ilah who is Allah
It is not only the believers who have one Ilah, buddy, everybody has only one 'ilah'.
16:51 God says: 'Take not to you two gods (ilahayni). He is Ilahun Wahidun; so have awe of Me.'
It doesn't say that he is One Ilah only for the believers, merely that there is only One Ilah. If you can bring a verse where Allah or a Prophet tells the believers to take one 'ilah' and the disbelievers to take another 'ilah,' then I would be interested in seeing it.
Note this verse, where He again says there is only One Ilah:
16:22 Your Ilah is One Ilah. And they who believe not in the world to come, their hearts deny, and they have waxed proud.
The disbelievers wrongly take others as 'ilah' but the Quran does not endores their practice (16:22, 16:51). Whether Muslims or non-Muslims (Pagans/jews/Christians/others), there is only One Ilah for all.
Posted:
Sat 20 Feb, 2010 4:20 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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The wrote:
@ This is because Allah is still using the word Ilah to refer to Himself, i.e. Ilah can be used to refer to Allah and any man made god, while the name Allah is a unique name that is explicit to Allah
Certianly I agree with that, i.e. we can refer to Allah using the word Ilah, as for the believers there is only one Ilah who is Allah
The wrote:
It is not only the believers who have one Ilah, buddy, everybody has only one 'ilah'.
In reality yes, everybody has one Ilah Who is Allah, but in the deluded world of many humans, they believe to have more than one Ilah, like the Hindus and Christians
The wrote:
16:51 God says: 'Take not to you two gods (ilahayni). He is Ilahun Wahidun; so have awe of Me.'
That is right, Allah in this verse is referring to the real and one God of all creatures, using the words He is Ilah Wahid. He is not referring Himself using His unique name Allah.
The wrote:
It doesn't say that he is One Ilah only for the believers,
That is right, however I meant something else, that from Allah's perspective, There is only One Ilah for all, but from the human perspective, they might be more than one Ilah. The verse however is talking from Allah's perspective
The wrote:
merely that there is only One Ilah.
That is right
The wrote:
If you can bring a verse where Allah or a Prophet tells the believers to take one 'ilah' and the disbelievers to take another 'ilah,' then I would be interested in seeing it.
But this is not related to my point at all, I think we have a communication issue
The wrote:
Note this verse, where He again says there is only One Ilah:
16:22 Your Ilah is One Ilah. And they who believe not in the world to come, their hearts deny, and they have waxed proud.
The disbelievers wrongly take others as 'ilah' but the Quran does not endores their practice (16:22, 16:51). Whether Muslims or non-Muslims (Pagans/jews/Christians/others), there is only One Ilah for all.
That is right, and I know that the Quran is talking from the perpestive of Allah that there is only One Ilah, i.e. we can refer to Allah as, Ilah or Al-Ilah, however Al-Illah cannot be combined to be Allah, i.e. Allah is not the composition of Al + Ilah
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Yes, buddy. And what we are interested in is the right perspective and not the disbelievers' perspective. So now we agree that there is in fact only one Ilah (for believers and disbelievers alike) and that is Allah. I will now move to the next part of your earlier post.
@however if we use the word Ilah to refer to Allah then we must add to the sentence something that uniquely identify Him which His unique name Allah, i.e.
La Illah Illa Allah
i.e. there is no god except Allah
or A Ilah Ghair Allah
i.e. is it a god other than Allah?
for the first example it should sound odd if you say it like this: there is no god except the God, it makes absolutely no sense
and for the second example, it should also sound odd if you say it like this: is it a god other than the God?
I don't see why it makes no sense or that it sounds odd; it is probably because you are looking at it critically.
Let's read it again, this time with 'Allah' as 'The ilah': There is no ilah except The ilah.
Let us now compare it with another verse (16:22): Your ilah is One ilah
Here's another verse (4:171): The ilah is One ilah.
Now compare 4:171 and 16:22 -- what do we get?
Posted:
Sat 20 Feb, 2010 5:20 pm
The Rook
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I did feel that 'ilah' was a misunderstood term, but it is only now that I tried a methodical approach to the subject. And Allah does indeed forcefully convey that He Alone is Ilah.
21:25 And We sent never a Messenger before thee except that We revealed to him, saying, 'There is no ilah but I; so serve Me.'
And Pharaoh's (one of the most arrogant and obstinate disbelievers depicted in the Quran) late realization in 10:90 is also profound.
I am glad we had this conversation, buddy.
Posted:
Sat 20 Feb, 2010 5:41 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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The wrote:
Yes, buddy. And what we are interested in is the right perspective and not the disbelievers' perspective. So now we agree that there is in fact only one Ilah (for believers and disbelievers alike) and that is Allah. I will now move to the next part of your earlier post.
Sure, mate.
The wrote:
@however if we use the word Ilah to refer to Allah then we must add to the sentence something that uniquely identify Him which His unique name Allah, i.e.
That is what I thought, however the verse you brought in dies not use Allah in the sentence, Innama Hua Ilah Wahid, therefore the context should be considered for us to know what Ilah we are talking about, in this verse it is the only Ilah, i.e. Allah is the only God
I think to say, the God is the only God, sounds a bit poor and odd, but Allah is the only God, then it makes great sense of using His unique name "Allah" to refer to Him
The wrote:
La Illah Illa Allah
i.e. there is no god except Allah
or A Ilah Ghair Allah
i.e. is it a god other than Allah?
for the first example it should sound odd if you say it like this: there is no god except the God, it makes absolutely no sense
and for the second example, it should also sound odd if you say it like this: is it a god other than the God?
I totally agree, however we learnt now from the verse you brought in that we have to use the context if Allah is not mentioned when Ilah word is used
The wrote:
I don't see why it makes no sense or that it sounds odd; it is probably because you are looking at it critically.
Let's read it again, this time with 'Allah' as 'The ilah': There is no ilah except The ilah.
There is no Ilah except the Ilah, sounds vague to me but at the same time and under the proper context that the Ilah is Allah, then I may accept it
However La Ilah Illah Allah must be translated as There is no god except Allah
if we translate it as, there is no god except the God, then this is totally wrong
But as for your sentence, La Ilah Illah Al-Ilah, then it must be translated as, there is no god eccept the God, and this is very fine with me
The wrote:
Let us now compare it with another verse (16:22): Your ilah is One ilah
Here's another verse (4:171): The ilah is One ilah.
Now compare 4:171 and 16:22 -- what do we get?
Sure, and it should be translated as, your god is One God, and under the context it should mean that Your god is Allah, but that does not in any way imply that Allah = Al + Ilah
I hope you got what I mean as I fee that we still have a communication issue
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The wrote:
I did feel that 'ilah' was a misunderstood term, but it is only now that I tried a methodical approach to the subject. And Allah does indeed forcefully convey that He Alone is Ilah.
21:25 And We sent never a Messenger before thee except that We revealed to him, saying, 'There is no ilah but I; so serve Me.'
And Pharaoh's (one of the most arrogant and obstinate disbelievers depicted in the Quran) late realization in 10:90 is also profound.
all the above is very fine with me and I agree totally with you, my point is simply and linguistically: Allah is not the composition of Al and Ilah
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@I think to say, the God is the only God, sounds a bit poor and odd
Which verse are you referring to when you give that example of 'the God is the only God'?
Jeez, buddy, I agree we are not on the same page. What I am trying to say is that there is no structural difference between 'The ilah is One ilah' and 'Your ilah is One ilah'.
If you say 'The ilah is One ilah' has a wrong construct, then you have to say the same for 'Your ilah is One ilah' (16:22) as well.
Again, the context for 'ilah' is given in the Quran itself. 21:25 ('There is no ilah but I) makes it clear that there is One Ilah, no matter what the disbelievers say, and that should be enough for us. But fortunately we have an example: In 5:73, the disbelievers are saying "Allah is third of three". Does that mean there exist more than one Allah?
Posted:
Sat 20 Feb, 2010 7:55 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
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Indeed bro we are talking about totally different things
Let me simplify it
do you consider the name Allah to be driven from the Arabic word Al-Ilah?
and
How do you translate the following 3 Arabic words into English:
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